21st October 2015 at 7:51 am #3232Pat GregoryParticipant
The latest TfL policy is indeed far sided pedestrians with or without PCATS (countdown) most modernisation schemes are going from pelican to pedesestrian.15th October 2015 at 10:33 am #3230paulpickerillParticipant
Coincidentally we had a complaint a few days ago about a *new* crossing that was unsafe as it was giving a green to pedestrians when traffic had an amber. It seens odd to those of us approaching a certain age, but apparently there are some people out there now who haven’t been brought up with Pelicans.
This particular Pelican has been there since 1982,15th July 2015 at 8:00 am #3220dhulsonParticipant
My interpretation on the guidance regarding nearside and farside signals has been exactly the same as Ian’s, as the guidance was quite clear that the puffin crossing was to become the standard form of signalised pedestrian crossing.13th July 2015 at 2:12 pm #3219ianwallisParticipant
And how long do we want an inconsistent approach to crossings across the country. It’s about time we decided what type we’re going to use and stick with it.13th July 2015 at 2:07 pm #3218Mark StevensParticipant
The DfT are right, it has always been an LA decision, I know a County Shire had the policy all new signals were Pelicans or farside junctions and I think TfL had a similar policy.
As far as I understand it the upcoming TSRGD will remove the option for new Pelicans so if a Local Authority wants a standalone crossing with zig-zags then only nearside options are available (Puffin/Toucan/Equestrian).
There’s no expiry date if I recall so we can keep refurbishing Pelicans but the question arises, how many times can you replace the controller & heads for it to be an original Pelican or a new one.
I’d have to check again but wasn’t there something in the draft new regs about a farside crossing with no zig-zags, which I’ve seen called a ‘one-can’ and think it had another name in the Regs.
I think the idea came from London and operates as a standalone farside Junction Pedestrian.13th July 2015 at 9:42 am #1033ianwallisParticipant
We’ve discussed the merits of pelican vs puffin crossings in several threads and I’m aware of some LAs still installing far-sided indicators and even pelican crossings but I’ve always interpreted this as being contrary to the guidance. However, in a recent response to Alan Ball of Lincolnshire DfT said that “the design of crossings, including decisions on whether to provide farside or nearside pedestrian/toucan signals, is a matter for each local authority.”
In my opinion this contradicts a number of publications – certainly LTN 2/95 where it states “7.1.1 Puffin crossings use near-side pedestrian signal heads and an extendable all-red crossing period which is instigated by a push button request accompanied by a pedestrian detector demand. It is intended that the Puffin operational cycle will become the standard form of pedestrian crossing at stand-alone crossings and junctions.” This is supported by the text in the Foreward of the Puffin Good Practise Guide where the Minister of State for Transport and the President of the County Surveyor Society said “To improve the situation, the Department for Transport developed a new type of crossing, known as a Puffin, which can be used both at junctions and at crossings … It will provide the basis for a standardised form of signalling at all crossings; crossings for pedestrians, cyclists and equestrians …
This “intention” that the Puffin should become the standard crossing format is surely a clear indication that DfT were not expecting individual Authorities to make their own choice on this matter.
What does anyone else think about this?
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