16th March 2017 at 1:02 pm #3410AnonymousInactive
Problems I have with this section are:
-The update makes continual references to signs (2702-2707) which are superseded by TSRGD Schedule 13 Part 9 thus the references are not current.
– A fundamental requirement of diversion route signing is to initiate the route with a “Diversion” sign (old TSRGD ref: 2702) yet U7.2.6 advises they are not suitable for high speed roads due to their small size, with graphics indicating they are to be omitted. I think this is wrong. TSRGD permits signs with xht’s from 35-400mm. Diversion routes should always start with a “Diversion” sign (unless D3.15.10 is revoked/out of date).
-The road closed signs and exit closed signs do not comply with Schedule 13 Part 9 paragraph 8 either. The signs should be red/white.
I would appreciate peoples views on this.
Kevin Holland16th March 2017 at 2:00 pm #4010Talk-Mobility AdministratorKeymaster
The signs references are to DfT Working Drawings now, not TSRGD Diagram numbers. We asked DfT to make a collection of the old 2002 diagrams that are now covered under Schedule 13 Part 9. They can be found here:
It can be a little confusing, having both signs that still have TSRGD Diagram numbers and signs that are now to S13 P9 that don’t. However, referring to the WDs for the S13 P9 signs is the only way we can point designers to the right place to get design info, if that makes sense?
The recommendation to designers generally is that if a WD exists for the S13 P9 sign they want to use, then they should design the sign in accordance with the WD, or otherwise the basic principles given in Chapter 7 if a WD doesn’t exist. In an ideal world this should help to retain some level of consistency across the country. How successful this attempt to retain consistency will be is something only time will tell – personally I’m not too hopeful but maybe that’s just cynical old me? It sometimes worries me when I speak to people in the TTM industry and mention the WDs – all too often it’s obvious people aren’t aware they exist.
As for signs at the start of a diversion route, the road closed/exit closed signs that you refer to are variations on the theme of the old Diagram 2716. They are intended to be re-used at junctions across the network, hence the text on them. They are alternative designs for the 2716s shown on plans DCC1 and SRC1, with “M1 North (or J9)” bring replaced with “Road” or “Exit” as appropriate, so these signs aren’t really new as such.
D3.15.10 is still current, note that it says to use appropriate direction signs to 2702 to 2707. For completeness it ought to also mention 2716 but as all temporary diversion signs are now S13 P9, that’s one of the things that will get sorted out when (if?) Chapter 8 Part 3 is wrapped into updated Parts 1 and 2. Whether that will ever happen is another matter but it’s certainly something on HE’s wish list as I understand it.
Hopefully this has de-muddied the waters a little, if you need any more, ask away 🙂
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